Supercharging??

[quikishsilver]

Right guys a know a lot of you on here are extremely god with all the tech stuff that floats about from time to time and that we have a few charged motors on here.

Just wondered if you good people could answer me a few question about charging a 16v.

1. what parts are actually needed for a full on working system.
2. what are the benifits of charging over a turbo.
3. what kind of maintance do they require

and finally, what gains are to be had.

Many thanks all.

[shunteruk]

1. charger unit, custom mount/bracket and pulley system etc, to run the charger, boost pipes, intercooler, forged pistons and conrods for high power applications, standalone ECU, possibly bigger or extra injectors. thats as much as i know for now
2. cooler under bonnet temperatures, smoother power delivery which means less strain on gearbox etc compared to when boost kicks in on a turbo, will be able to run standard (shape) exhaust system rather than having to have custom mani & downpipe
3. i would assume not much different to normal to be honest

gains: a quick pug lol

[quikishsilver]

Cheers shunter extremely helpful there, will have to do some more investigation me thinks. but once again thanks.

[shunteruk]

no problem mate, a good person to talk to is dannygti he helped me out a fair bit as he is planning to supercharge his as am i, hope he doesnt mind me recommending him lol.

[shunteruk]

o yea and you'll also want to make sure you have a good suspension set up and preferably bigger brakes too.

Oh and you'll probably need a differential fitted too to manage the increased power between the wheels.

[quikishsilver]

yeah shall try and have a chat with danny aswell then. lets see what the future brings, as ive not got the enigne in yet so thought it might be useful to get the set up now if funds let me.

Also what do you think of the new toyo's, still got the t1-s atm and need to change again but wasn't sure about the t1-r's as nobody has said anything about them.

[shunteruk]

yea thats my plan, to buy a spare engine and build it all up ready to drop in, its just funds that hold me back lol

[scvts]

you dont need conrods if your within a normal rev limit.

its little bits what add up, samco hosing cost me more than 100 alone.

charger has no lag as its always boosting.

a diff would be awsome but still works without - i dont have one and can still pull of very quick.

a manifold which wont get in the way of the charger or an pipeing.

[quikishsilver]

cheers fella so as long as its not gettin the bollocks revved out of in conrods ain't nessercary.

surely the hosing doesn't have to be samco which is v expensive for a bit of rubber really.

and a custom mani.

Dont suppose you have any pics of your set up from above the engine bay to i can get a rought idea of layout?? cheers

[wullieboy]

yeah shall try and have a chat with danny aswell then. lets see what the future brings, as ive not got the enigne in yet so thought it might be useful to get the set up now if funds let me.

Also what do you think of the new toyo's, still got the t1-s atm and need to change again but wasn't sure about the t1-r's as nobody has said anything about them.


t1'r there awesome m8

[106turbo]

maintenance wise its not much more than na to be honest as long as you use quality products.

With regards to parts it all depends what your reving to and what sort of power your after. Its best to use low compression pistons as this will take so much abuse comparred to the twin head gasket method.
It is idea to have standalone ecu and larger injectors as this can be more finely tuned and you can see more gains if mapped correctly. An alternative is using a piggy back system and an extra injector but this may not be the best thing to do, again all depends how much power you want.
With regards to having lag on turbo set ups, you can build a turbo spec 16v engine and have no lag, ie shauns, i have been in it and no lag at all just pulls right through the rev range. How much lag you get all depends on how its mapped to, if you have, lets say the stepped boost method then you will reduce the lag on bigger turbos and therefore less stress on parts such as input splines, clutches and diffs.

Gains: it all depends how deep your pockets are. there are people going for 300-350 bhp and will achieve this with there spec. Gmc have a very nice supercharged saxo, i believe its running 320 bhp at the wheels and is still under developement.

If your thinking about supercharging i think they will be the best place to go. Will build anything to your spec and make it as reliable as you need it to be, but again all depends on your budget as you will have to include labour charges.

Hope this helps, i prob could so into it some more but i have a bit to drink lol

[quikishsilver]

Cheers mate, yeah had already looked at gmc website and was impressed with what they was offering so had thought about looking at going to them as a supplier.

Really though althought 320hp at the wheel would be an extremely nice toy to have, i feel that it would be massively ott for the area that i live in, insurance would be stupid, and my pockets ain't deep enought to fuel it. Because id want to use all the hp 99% of the time :-).

I feel it would be a bit like owning a cossie and never driving it. Totally pointless, so a modest gain somewhere 200hp or somewhere just below would be ample, as althought credit to him shaunes is an animal but i don't think id be able to live for long with that kinda fun.

[fred]

a 200 bhp 106 will be quick enough for most aswell.

Anything above 250 is about bragging rights ;)

[quikishsilver]

Yeah and don't get me wrong fred there nice to have but not always as pratical as they may seem.

[106turbo]

can see your point shauns is running 260 at the fly, its a rather nice figure to have and i dont think its that bad on fuel either.

more than 250 bragging rights pffftttt lol its pushing the boundaries most wont push!

[fred]

Turbos a bit different than a high power s/c though. The instant torque on a 250 bhp s/c engine will be insane. At least in a turbo you will have a bit of lag to let you know youve been an idiot flooring it in 2nd doing 30 mph....

Nowt wrong with more power, but we will wait for sybez's input re: s/c

[loudandproud205]

s/c costs loads and if you only want modest gains turbo is soooooooooooooo much cheapo ;)

[quikishsilver]

Yes certainly thats why id never take anything away from the people that do get huge figure be it hp or torque, but for some its just everything.

As you'll tell im only just coming to grips with basic tuning but hopefully with you guys input this in my tiny brain will sink in a lot quicker.

So thanks all for posts.

[106turbo]

Lol fred there an s/c axo running 250 bhp at the wheels, tams on ssc. Thats immense. and then you have john at gmc ive heard that its 320 at the wheels, s/c power. Monster aye.

If you find the right parts you can do s/c cheaply, but then again nothings ever cheap as the cheap things will break or needed to be replaced when you want more.

[fred]

Yeah I know, perfectly fine if you can control your right foot lol

[106turbo]

lol we all know most of the time there like lead lol

[loudandproud205]

ermmmm goes to look for cheap rotex charger then

[quikishsilver]

yes yes lee cheap rotex don't exist i know but there are plus's a minus for both options and im feeling the s/c at the moment.

[fred]

also you get the cool extra long release from the BOV when you let off the throttle ;) people who know, will know its a S/C

[shaun 106 gti]

all i can say is 217 bhp at the wheels is plenty lol,but for the bragging rites off having over 250 bhp well thats on its way cause ime going for 300 ha ha ha,

on a serious not boost isnt cheap,but its alot of fun so its worth it!!

[quikishsilver]

Good mate, glad to see your pushing the boundaries some more and i can just imagine the smile it brings to your face everytime it boost kicks in and you hell past an evo.

Tried it on any evo 10's yet tho.. there meant to be some kinda mutts nutts mobile.

[quikishsilver]

Right guys had an email back from GMC, and the charger kit seems reasonably price.

But there are parts i could by specifically myself, like Ecu system and injectors.
Are there any specific brands to stay clear of and any that you would reccomend as being good??

[edwards]

whats the price from gmc?

[dannygti]

i would reccomend kms, emerald, dta, or what im going for vems pnp. these are all good systems but i would personally try to get one with wideband lambda control....it is a safe way of doing things and you can set a target a/f ratio so things like fuelling dont get out of hand.

they are all about the same money really so ask the person you intend on mapping the car what they would prefer to use.

injectors would depend on your spec and how much power your after... more power = more fuel, but dont just get mahhoooosive injectors as their duty cycle wont do low power very easy and will be more difficult to map..

i would decide what power, decide charger size then decide what ecu then get company's like gmc etc to reccomend all the other bits.

[quikishsilver]

Cheers danny thankyou.

And Edwards prices are as follows.

Charger+all brackets, belts and oil system £1560 + vat

Intercooler+ rad combo + header tank and cooling fan £ 860 +vat

And these can be supplied or bought seperately. Ecu, larger injectors and samco hosing. No prices supplied.

Hope that helps.

[106turbo]

dont forget though you have clutch, maybe a diff???? all other rebuild parts, then what you mention above.

ecu and mapping say £1500
Injectors:£250
Hosing: £200
Diff:500
Rebuild parts: £200
Proper breaks if going 300 and above: ££ depends what you get

[dannygti]

then you have forged pistons £500 then rods if revving £500 the mapping £500 then ecu and injectors £ 1100 etc etc and all the little that you forget about

[dannygti]

dont forget though you have clutch, maybe a diff???? all other rebuild parts, then what you mention above.

ecu and mapping say £1500
Injectors:£250
Hosing: £200
Diff:500
Rebuild parts: £200
Proper breaks if going 300 and above: ££ depends what you get


beat me to it biatch lol

[106turbo]

haha o and get some arp bolts in there if pressing for the 300 plus power range, the bolts are the things that take alot of the strain.

[dannygti]

haha o and get some arp bolts in there if pressing for the 300 plus power range, the bolts are the things that take alot of the strain.


and some rod bolts im guessing are gonna be around £90?

soo expensive this game but if you talk to the people who have done it soooo rewarding:D

[quikishsilver]

Yeah but as stated before guys i ain't going for them gains. Moderate but noticeable. earlier 200's would be gr8 and ample.

[106turbo]

dont worry about the arp bolts then, but for an ideal set up everything we mentioned is what your going to need.

[quikishsilver]

so all in all. £3000-£4000 should be a ball park figure for a decent set-up then.??

To right danny was thinking £2000 - might be enought to get me in business but aye-ho. Might be on hold for a bit longer but not totally disregarded

[106turbo]

your talking the 6k mark and theres always other bits you will want for example catch tanks, filter, gauges etc