Are cams actually worth the money?

[Easty-5]

Reason i ask is because I had a little play with a cammed & remapped GTi last night. Apparently running 160bhp. I beat it first time round and the other times i was literally neck and neck with it. Now, i know if i spent in the region of £1.5k getting cams fitted and a decent remap to see me up to 160bhp then I'd expect to breeze past non-cammed GTi's and the likes. I was very disapointed to be honest as i was planning on camming it soon but dont think i'm going to bother wasting my money.

[WARDY]

easty your in luck, mines 154bhp, brother bought a yellow on on saturday with exhaust manifold and filter, i have show cage, rear strutbarce bigger wheels and a extra person in on way back and going round this sweeping bend on a42 there wasnt owt in it but day after on grimy bypass where we go when cruise aint on, me and him side by side, he said nail it, however i didnt ........... i let him get four to five maybe slighlty more car lengths in front then gave it some, by 6k in fourth i was pushing him(having to slow down), thats wi one person in so there is a difference, he can drive fast too so i know its just not capability

also cams and map aint cost me a grand, i defo need head doing next plus bodies or somethin we'll see

[James.G]

yeah, a mate has a silly fast rallye which beats pretty much most things and he got passed by a cammed VTS.

So is now looking into cams, but i think 1.5k is very over priced.. your looking at more like £800-£100 depending where you go.

[drive-thru]

Didn't your GTi only produce a high 120bhp on the rollers? If so, a cammed GTi running 150+ would nail you. Fact.

[Easty-5]

He had a passenger and so did i so same amount of people. I think your prob right, i think they might give you better top end but I would expect a much better lower down and mid-range aswell.

[Easty-5]

Didn't your GTi only produce a high 120bhp on the rollers? If so, a cammed GTi running 150+ would nail you. Fact.

Yup 129bhp on the rollers but i got quite a high torque figure. You'd expect i would get nailed huh, but i didn't. Fact.

The guy is actually on here, Its the Nana with morrettes, anthracite VTS rims and slammed.

James - This was at GMC mate. It was about 1400 inc VAT and that was with me supplying the cams :confused:

[WARDY]

its not massive difference but its noticable and mines driving mint at min

[Rich]

Was you going in a straight line or round bends?

[WARDY]

ermmmmmmmmm not good cant be right but oh well, 1400 quid is expensive, 326 cams, map say upto 470 and fitting well i paid 50 quid lol

[Easty-5]

Was you going in a straight line or round bends?

Straight mate.

[loudandproud205]

yeah cams are worth the money he obvously cant drive for shit

mines only 144bhp and makes short work of stand vts/gti's

[smithy]

its either a very shitty engine with a crap map or he hasnt got cams and a remap because i know for a fact me and my mate have exactly the same mods down to a T, apart from he has cams and a remap, and tbh he kills my gti easily... :(

[drive-thru]

My gti produced 138.9 bhp with a de-cat and exhaust. And my mate has cams running 155+bhp, start from standing and the difference is crazy... top end of every gear it's so much quicker. And my GTi is pretty healthy, i can't wait to get my cams fitted.

[James.G]

Easty - yeah i GMC are no doubt a hell of a company but im thinking...

second hand cams - £250

New? - £350?

Fitting - do yourself? or by a garage £100?

mapping - £450..

so even with the most expensive way its £900.. :)

[WARDY]

james is right and drive-thru 138.9 wi de cat etc, mine was lacking lol, seems good now tho ha ha

[Easty-5]

Well tbh I'm not going to cam my car until i actually see some substancial evidence that a cammed GTi is a fair bit quicker than a non-cammed one.

Gez's GTi (cammed) at knockhill seemed rapid but you couldnt really tell straightline speed as never came across him on the straight as he was just really quick round the corners.

[WARDY]

national day son regarding straightline standing start then i suppose, heard rumour of york, im sure we'll know difference by then, im trying to sway ya to them lol they do make a difference

[Easty-5]

Easty - yeah i GMC are no doubt a hell of a company but im thinking...

second hand cams - £250

New? - £350?

Fitting - do yourself? or by a garage £100?

mapping - £450..

so even with the most expensive way its £900.. :)

Yea i think your right, i may have to look into it a bit more. John at GMC don't remap standard ECU's so i think along with the mapping was a dastek or the equivelent. I'm sure he quoted not far off 400 odd to fit the cams and about 700 for fitting the dastek/chip and mapping.

[Easty-5]

national day son regarding straightline standing start then i suppose, heard rumour of york, im sure we'll know difference by then, im trying to sway ya to them lol they do make a difference

Yea i may be swayed towards them when i see some 1/4 mile action but up until then i am more than happy with my 129bhp engine :)

[loudandproud205]

you never seem to have enough power.

i was happy with 144.86 now i crave more but proberly more than

1.my pocket can handel
2.the 1.6 engine can realibly give

[Easty-5]

TBH if i wanted serious power i would just buy a proper car for that was built for proper power.

[WARDY]

lol@ lee and easty

aye we'll see, ill see if we are off any ealrier into summer and get some more accurate ideas for ya, but there is a difference ha ha

[V6Jules]

i may have some second hand kent cams for sale at some point... need to find out what they are as im sure they were fitted when mine was running bodies and now its boosted they are unsuitable so might even go back to standards not sure yet, i will see how it drives after getting the mapping done tomorrow

[Ferg]

I was sceptical about the difference until I had a play with Tom (Piglet) in his Silver GTi. His is properly set up for track and kills most things on the road. He really started to pull away from me towards the end of 3rd and then more and more in every gear. Mine had Mani, and Cat-Back system @ the time although his is stripped, Cammed, Remapped etc. Difference was still frightening.

I'll certaintly be investing in cams and a re-map once the monies are available....

[ste_106_gti]

you never seem to have enough power.

i was happy with 144.86 now i crave more but proberly more than

1.my pocket can handel
2.the 1.6 engine can realibly give

I am like that now.

The TB's and cams produce some really good power (and noise around 3.5k). But when you drive something regular. you get used to it.

I crave more power now....

[wayne's-gti]

i may have some second hand kent cams for sale at some point... need to find out what they are as im sure they were fitted when mine was running bodies and now its boosted they are unsuitable so might even go back to standards not sure yet, i will see how it drives after getting the mapping done tomorrow

If they are the ones that are in curts old car when it was bodied im 99% sure there just re-ground original cams?

[Lee C]

Just had mine done and it cost:

£225 - 708's
£60 - Fitting
£25 - Cam Belt
£450 + VAT - Remap
TOTAL = £838.75

I wasted a modified megan 225 and creeped away from an s3, spoke to both drivers and they were gutted they had just been done by a 1600cc tin box but loved the "sleeperness" of it all.

[Easty-5]

Just had mine done and it cost:

£225 - 708's
£60 - Fitting
£25 - Cam Belt
£450 + VAT - Remap
TOTAL = £838.75

I wasted a modified megan 225 and creeped away from an s3, spoke to both drivers and they were gutted they had just been done by a 1600cc tin box but loved the "sleeperness" of it all.

I wish there were garages around here that would do it that cheap. I just paid £305 for a timingbelt change and that was a good price!!

Did you get your standard ECU mapped?

[WARDY]

sounds it easty and wow your garages are expensive up there


lee 708's 225 quid thats cheap

[Lee C]

A mate fitted the cams, and yes ecu remap by chipwizards.

[fred]

A cammed gti is quicker than a gti with lesser mods, clearly. But its alot of money, but anything else after the usual breathing mods costs alot aswell.

[wullieboy]

my kent pt51's get fitted next week im trying to book chipwizards just now so ill hopefully be in a position to comment on this from experience's of my own

[aidy]

my car killed a pigeon once! ;)





but on a serious note i plan to invest in some cams at some point later this year, i wanna go fasterrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[leeds106]

get on track and learn to drive ya car and gain more confidence then ya melon :p

[Easty-5]

Wullieboy - Is chipwizards not a bit of a long drive? Surely you must be able to find somewhere in Scotland?

[carlbrown]

i got my engine mapped,cams and chip for £600 and its noticably different,runnin at 150bhp and 125 at the wheels,whoops standard gti's torque was so high he had to do the reading in 4th gear coz it was allover the rollers the guy at lad motorsport said "impressive"

[arrakis]

I have already done my exhaust and air intake. Now it's time to do the cam and remap ecu.

What is your recommendations for cams. I want to keep everything else OEM like retainers etc. I have thought about CatCams. Also it would be very nice to tell me some places where to get them. I have already tried Kamracing but they haven't answered yet. Can I find them cheaper somewhere?

Thanks already!

Sami

[SidewayzSam]

There is a difference, not a massive one, but in a straight line a cammed GTi will certainly pull away from a standard one.

[mikey_b]

will let you know the difference when mine is done, am interested myself never been in a cammed one. got my cams n head almost ready to go on.

[wullieboy]

Wullieboy - Is chipwizards not a bit of a long drive? Surely you must be able to find somewhere in Scotland?


probs is easty ive never heard of anyone even nearly as good , and well manchester is only 2-3- hours i suppose

[Olee]

will be interesting to see how all this turns out, should be getting either piper/ph3`s for my xsi soon ;)

[Easty-5]

probs is easty ive never heard of anyone even nearly as good , and well manchester is only 2-3- hours i suppose

Thats true, i keep forgetting your already halfway down scotland lol.

[arrakis]

I was looking for CatCams sites and found these parts numbers:

1321705
1321708

These cams costs £327.05

And these cams

1321719
1321717
1321718
1321703

costs £409.02 in their site.

So are these two first a real choice to reach 150bhp with ecu remapped? I know everyone is talking about '708 but which are they?

Can I find these cams cheaper from anywhere else?

Any info appreciated!

Thanks!

Sami from Finland

[WARDY]

1321708


708's ya want and mapped 150bhp+ here ya come

[arrakis]

1321708


708's ya want and mapped 150bhp+ here ya come


Damn I was stupid...'708 that's three last numbers of course...

Thanks!

[andywiddss1]

makes interesting reading guys

like 157.4 bhp with a 1.3 rallye gearbox sumtimes i carnt change gear quick enuff ha ha

[arrakis]

makes interesting reading guys

like 157.4 bhp with a 1.3 rallye gearbox sumtimes i carnt change gear quick enuff ha ha

Impressive numbers you have there...!:cool:

[WARDY]

thats it lol, i need s1 rallye box next year lol

[Easty-5]

Will it not give you a much lower top end? I was under the impression that cams help your top end better than lower end so in theory you would be cancelling out the cams with a shorter ratio gearbox?

[wullieboy]

Will it not give you a much lower top end? I was under the impression that cams help your top end better than lower end so in theory you would be cancelling out the cams with a shorter ratio gearbox?


im pretty sure cams (depending which) will help you at the top end of the rev range and not just top end speed. but good point wonder if this does happen??

[Easty-5]

Yea they definetly do help top end of revs aswell, i think thats why most people get the limiter raised. But with a shorter ratio gearbox you wont get as much out of each gear. For talking sake, you can hit 120 in 4th on a standard GTi box. With a 1.3 box i'd imagine by the time you hit 100 you be needing to change into fifth. Think of all the time lost changing gear.

I may be completely off the ball here so dont quote me on anything lol.

[wullieboy]

na mate that makes sense me thinks

[andywiddss1]

Will it not give you a much lower top end? I was under the impression that cams help your top end better than lower end so in theory you would be cancelling out the cams with a shorter ratio gearbox?

think ur getting abit mixed up mate top end power an torque

is nothing to do with top speed :)

[andywiddss1]

the time it takes to change gear is about 0.5 of a sec so if u have a good set of cams an a paddle cluch the revs dont drop very much at all there fore not much time lost . an a vts with s1 rallye box tops out at 120 mph

[shunteruk]

i think the idea in a rallye box is so you can get up in the rev range quicker to tap into the power band of the cams sooner, coz lets face it you dont need to be goin round at 120-140mph all the time lol, let alone it being illiegal lol.

all your doing with the rallye box compared to a gti box is accelerating quicker, yes you will be changing gear at lower speeds but should be reaching them in quicker times due to the shorter ratio.

[andywiddss1]

i think the idea in a rallye box is so you can get up in the rev range quicker to tap into the power band of the cams sooner, coz lets face it you dont need to be goin round at 120-140mph all the time lol, let alone it being illiegal lol.

all your doing with the rallye box compared to a gti box is accelerating quicker, yes you will be changing gear at lower speeds but should be reaching them in quicker times due to the shorter ratio.


very very true an thats why i use a rallye box most cars are over geared by over 20 percent :)

[shunteruk]

woohoo i got something rite ;)

[arrakis]

Still wondering where you have bought your cams and what was the price?:confused:

Here in Finland the prices are, would I say, from the other planet so I have to order my cams from British company...

I have ordered auto parts there a couple of times. Usually the shipping costs are also significant. On the other hand the parts used to be -30% cheaper there....

Sami

[arrakis]

Hi!

I ordered the cams but now it seems be the problems with remapping the ECU...No one wants to do it...:eek:

How difficult job it is?

Any experience what need to do?


Sami

[fred]

Its hard if youve never done it before

You need some expensive software to do it

Ideally you need acess to a rolling road aswell...

[gj_gti1986]

right boys whats this chip wizzards about ??? location cost ?? i got piper cams an to be honest i doubt its ever bin remapped if anybody can gimme any feedback on this remappin work?? id prob go for it in a few weeks an let u's all no if its any better because ive only had a play with vtr's not vts's or any gti's mate has got a gti so could try him.

[arrakis]

When changing the cams should I do something for the timing or would I let it be like OEM. Would CatCams send their cams with proper installition instructions? Someone said it here....but I can't remember it....

Anyone?

[Easty-5]

What cams you got mate. Standard timing is fine for Catcam 708's.

[arrakis]

What cams you got mate. Standard timing is fine for Catcam 708's.

Ok. Then I should be fine... I will get those 708's...:cool:

[jamie_pug_gti]

just orderd a set of cat cam 708's and new followers.

also a piper 4-2-1 mani

can wait to get them fitted as its fast enuff now beats most thigns and its more or less standerd part from de-cat and breathing mods