turbo or supercharger

[pugsport]

right going to use my xsi as a track day car and soon going to be starting the work soon

what do you think is going to be better on a 1.4 xsi

[106turbo]

s/c all the way to be honest. You will have no lag, and less heat. With less heat you will have lower inlet temperatures and therefore a better change of achieving more boost as the air will be colder.

[loudandproud205]

on a 1.4 xsi you sure bout that the cost of turbo/super charging would you not be best off going for a valver first then turbo/super charge at a later date lets say

[ATFoxy 106]

Natural Aspiration Till I Die

[pugsport]

on a 1.4 xsi you sure bout that the cost of turbo/super charging would you not be best off going for a valver first then turbo/super charge at a later date lets say

plus i dont want a 1.6 16v like evry1 else has i wanna be different (was thinking about a 1.8 16v)

lol i dont do normal things lol

well i was thinking you get more power with a turbo as you dont have to drive it off the engine but then like said before you do get more heat

[S413AND]

For track - power delivery from a s/c is going to be much easier to control the car.

Ultimately you'll get more power out of a turbo, but between lag and trying to balance the car on the throttle mid corner - s/c is the better choice.

[fishfire]

If you go for a small turbo, lag should not be an issue. The smaller the compressor housing on the turbo the less lag, but also restricts top end power. I would say on a 1.4 you could happily get away with a small turbo for minimal lag.

If you heat wrap all the exhaust manifold and turbo, and use a decent front mount intercooler, heat issues should not be a problem. I would even be tempted to heat wrap the intercooler pipes from the intercooler to inlet, as this will keep the intake temperature down.

Contolling boost is a little easier on a turbo too, as you are not dependant on the size of a pully wheel (as on a super charger)

Also as has been mentioned, 'chargers do have a parasitic effect, as they are driven by the engine, and ultimatly make the engine work harder.

My preference would be a turbo, but chargers ar good too. Both have +'s and -'s, including cost! Guess its up personal preferece :)

[pugsport]

yer see im still not sure about supercharger or turbo dont know what good and bad bits there are for them so will have to look in to it a bit more.

i was thinking about the 1.6 8V from a 106 or a 1.8 16v/2.0 16v from a 306

[dannygti]

supercharger in form of a rotrex.

doesnt take a lot of power to power it.

boost is very easy to control as long as you choose the right pulley, there will be no nasty spiking and with a lot less charge temperature you be able to produce a lot of power for relativly low boost levels.

[fishfire]

supercharger in form of a rotrex.

doesnt take a lot of power to power it.

Takes no additional power to spool up a turbo :)

boost is very easy to control as long as you choose the right pulley, there will be no nasty spiking
If you have a decent electronic boost controller, set up right, there wont be any spiking on a turbo set up. I had no spikes on my impreza.

and with a lot less charge temperature you be able to produce a lot of power for relativly low boost levels.

Yup, chargers do produce less charge temperatures, as they are not run of hot exhaust gasses, but with a decent intercooler, charge temps are'nt a problem on turbo applications.

Chargers are good, but dont dismiss a good turbo set up!

[dannygti]

not saying a good set up turbo will spike but turbo's do this in general where s/c dont.

imo, you will always get higher charge temps with turbo so that cancels out the power advantage over the belt driven s/c, if that makes sense lol.

who cares if you lose 5bhp through powering a s/c when the net result is over 300bhp for example.

not arguing, just making a point .

[slammed106]

if its a track car des it have to have the biggest BHP figure in the pit lane??

just build a strong 1.4 nat asp 8v and spend your money on pukka suspension and a good box...

if you want the ego massage of a BIG number dont waste your time with TU`s and put a proper sized engine in there dont have to be a pug engine.. ford, honda, VAG... there all much better engines to start with...

[Gina_G]

turbo no question, money allowing turbo and throttle bodies

OR

R1 bike carbs
ignition only ecu
low pressure fuel pump
bp300 cam or similar
inlet manifold
4 branch manifold
exhaust

[dannygti]

compound charging ftw.

[fishfire]

ftw? what does that mean? :o

[Gina_G]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Sadako_Yamamura/Turbo%20Bits%20and%20New%20Parts/reducerview.jpg

[pugsport]

if its a track car des it have to have the biggest BHP figure in the pit lane??

just build a strong 1.4 nat asp 8v and spend your money on pukka suspension and a good box...

if you want the ego massage of a BIG number dont waste your time with TU`s and put a proper sized engine in there dont have to be a pug engine.. ford, honda, VAG... there all much better engines to start with...

im not only going to use if for track days runs down santa pod, maybe a bit of road driving its just going to be used as a play time toy and get a gti/xsi for normal day driving.

[dannygti]

ftw? what does that mean? :o

for the win! bud.


if you are doing it on a budget then turbo would be a better option in my opinion because you can get all parts second hae and relativly cheap.
i doubt you would see any cheap rotrex chargers mate.

[pugsport]

going to have about 3 to 4 grand to spend on it mate

well going to have 8 grand to spend and out of that i wanna get a half nice gti for everyday drive and then spend pretty much the rest on this one

[matt_106uk]

I now drive a supercharged 8v 106 and it tore the arse out of my old 16v 106 with mild tuning (Cams etc). If your going down either s/c or turbo route I'd recommend stand alone management as piggy pag ecu's are a pain in the arse....:)

[pugsport]

matt can you give me an idea of spec and that so i can get and idea and i dont know what to do about the ecu and is it better to have the coil pack or something else

[matt_106uk]

To be honest fella I still don't know the full spec as the car belonged to 2 a couple who were friends of mine but died a few years back, I've just been getting it finished off. I do know it has a Rotex S/C'r - well recommended brand I hear, and the newest edition an AdapTronic stand alone ecu, as prior to re-build it was running piggy backs which died :rolleyes: As for the internals etc I'm not sure what the make-up is but I will be getting a full list from my mechanic prior to it's feature so will let you know then.

[pugsport]

ok kool mate where abouts in essex you from might have to meet and have a little look at it

[matt_106uk]

No probs, I'm just off the A127 in Basildon fella. I'll be at Modded Nationals in a couple of weeks if not....

[pugsport]

ok sounds kool mate have to sort something out

[J0RD17N]

any of u Folks know for one of These for sale in this Club....?

[Raz]

I talked about these a while back... here is the thread

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17110&highlight=superchargers+turbo

And i just happen to say this...

Turbos

Turbos can spin to way over 150.000 rpm and yes thats faster than a supercharger can even dream of going! turbos get hot, really really hot! like over 800 degrees hot! A downside in my view yes, but thats where intercoolers and water injection come into a world of there own.

The painful and forever-lasting turbo lag this is also a downside. Anti lag costs a fair bit to set up... but why do you want be on full boost as your setting off? well il tell you, you don't! Its just going to result in a nice hefty wheel spin. so if your running a custom turbo or blower engine the chances are your already going to be rigging up a few BHP so lay that down first, then come on boost when your rolling...

Supra/skyline lads (and all that jazz) tend run twin turbos, a small turbo for bottom end, the small guy can spool up at 3000rpm! and now as better,lighter and stronger turbos are released lag is slowly becoming a thing of the past, the 2nd bigger turbo takes over for top end power where most BHP is made.

Superchargers

blowers are fix to your lump! this means there on a belt, so there never going to beat the daddy turbo as they are limited to there RPM, plus these things can take up to 25% of your power just to spin them over. e.g say a supercharger is giving ya 100BHP gain then 25-35 BHP is required to make the thing function. A turbo only requires about 5BHP to kick out the same power output! kool thing with blowers is you can change the gearing (the pully wheel) to tune how much boost ya want to run. But unlike turbos there is no lag with a supercharger, power is a constant all the time.

now facts aside, if you thinking of running this on a GTi lump or in fact any naturally aspirated engine, its going to cost you. Anything above about 7psi of boost pressure, engine internals along with fueling, cooling and so on will have to be upgraded if you wish your conversion to run safe and reliable. And remember you can get anything to work it all comes down to cost and perseverance....

but running boost on a 106 sounds out of this world! and when I have the time..... well we will see

Throttle Bodies

Throttle bodies basically replace the inlet manifold and existing OE throttle body, with a smaller in length, bigger in bore inlet manifold and one per cylinder large throttle body. The fueling system is also upgraded thus a mappable ECU is needed.

The result with cams, head work and a full exhaust system is awesome, the sound and instant power makes great play.

Engine internals can also be upgraded to increase the rev limiter as most power is obtained higher up the rev range with throttle bodies.

Trumpet size is a big tuning point with throttle bodies, its dictates the maximum power output at a certain RPM, i wont bore you with the formulas but it should never be overlooked.

hope thats helps, can talk about them all day....