Anti 4x4 brigade

[marinerpug]

Last night I watched a programme on ITV which was all about how evil 4x4 vehicles and the people they use them are.

Now, I know I dont have a 4x4 and I dont have any intention of buying one but I hate the anti 4x4 brigade and all they stand for.

The programme basically said that 4x4s are responsible for global warming, for killing children and for killing everyone else should you run into them and apparantly they make people drive more aggressively. Now, all cars produce emissions but its no-where near the level of certain industries. If a child gets run over by anything chances are that they're gonna croak it and accidents happen. Speaking from experience here if you're going fast enough or hit something the wrong way it doesnt matter if your in a 4x4 or a small eco friendly bio fuel electric powered daisy wagon you'll die. As for driving more aggressively, if you drive like a cock it doesnt matter what car you're in you'll always drive like a cock.

All their arguements are seriously flawed, but, its not that which is causing my annoyance. Its the fact that this group of people last night fronted by a short, fat patronising knob have the audacity to tell people what sort of car they should be driving. OK maybe someone who lives in London doesnt need a 4x4 but they WANT one and whats wrong with that? I dont need a 2 litre car but I love my GTI-6 People should be allowed to make decisions for themselves.

But even if they do get their own way and a law is passed banning anyone who isnt a farmer from using a 4x4 they wonte happy, I can see their next target and it will be sports car users. They wont be happy until we're all driving around in smart cars or toyota fucking priuses.

I cant believe that they're given the air time. I mean is it not bad enough that people who have 4x4s/sportscars are already charged an astronomical amount to drive britains pathetic excuse for a road system?

Our road tax is stupidly high and petrol has again broken the £1.00 per litre barrier. And now, apparantly we're responsible for all the worlds problems. They may have just said everytime someone starts a 4x4 a small cuddly kitten dies it really was that type of arguement.

Anyway I feel slightly better for that and its my debut in the rant forum, I've done well :D

[peedee]

I saw the programme for 21.30 onwards.

I have to disagree with you I'm afraid mate. 4x4's are pointless unless you live in the middle of nowhere where the roads are terrible and barely constructed, or you have a massive family.

Look at the 3 people on the programme last night. None of them needed a petrol guzzling 4x4, they just felt they had to have a car bigger than everyone else's. Look at the guy with the cadillac, he said he gets it down to 7mpg! That is ridiculous, ferarri's are more econimic than that. Listen to what the black women was saying as she was driving the estate car, all she kept going on about was how vulnerable she felt blah blah etc etc, she didn't actually have a proper reason for owning a 4x4!

People don't need 4x4's, its a status thing, and if you're sad enough to feel that insecure when driving that you need a bigger car than everyone else, you shoulden't be on the road!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and another thing. I f*****g hate mums on the school runs in their 4x4's!

[peedee]

I also think people who own 4x4's should get bum-f****d on tax aswell.

If they have enough money to run the guzzlers, they should pay through the nose for everything else!

[marinerpug]

I know that they dont need a 4x4 and they have no reason to have one. But if someone wants something then they should be allowed to have it.

Do you need a modified clio? Do I need a modified 306? Ihave no reason to drive a 2 litre hatchback that does 25 odd miles to the gallon I could do every journey I need to do in something sensible like a diesel fiesta or the greenies favourite a toyota prius.

But I dont, because I chose to drive what I drive. I accept that there really is no reason for people to own these cars and I know that the vast majority of people who do own 4x4s are knobs who drive it because its a status symbol. But they should be allowed to make that choice the same as I'm allowed to chose a 306 and you can chose a clio.

We live in a free country yet people always want to meddle in your business. Its that which makes me mad. These people are the same people who will tell you that you shouldn't eat fast food bcause you'll get fat or you shouldn't drink because you'll get lver diease. People should be allowed to make their own decisions and not be patronised, belittled and made to feel guilty by others.

[peedee]

I agree with what you're saying mate, but theres a bit of a difference between 25mpg and 7mpg.

Tax should be adjusted accordingly to what car you have. Maybe having massive tax on these guzzlers will put people off buying them as there's no real need for them to have them.

I don't see how you can argue with the crash testing either. If you're hit at 30 by a 306 gti-6, you stand a fairly good chance, if you're hit by that cadillac, you're brown bread. These crash tests have been proved time and time again. They don't do it to put people off buying 4x4's, they do it because its the truth.

[Fuzzy Orange]

Sorry dude don't agree with that at all

Everyone with a 4x4 assumes they are indestructable (same as volvo drivers) so drive around paying no attention to anything at all

I know what you say about kids in accidents not standing much of a chance, but given the choice i'd rather go over the bonnet of a plastic clio than into the grill of an 8ft high bull-barred land rover

They guzzle fuel and were built for a purpose (off road driving) and no-one uses them for their purpose. They drive their kids to school in them thinking there kids are safe whereas in reality most 4x4s get appauling crash test results - you'd be better off in a micra!
They roll over just by sneezing near them

I dont agree with telling people what to drive - but you drive a car that's built to go fast, and you drive it fast
If you drove to work in a land rover I'd kick you in the f*cking nuts!!

[gazz]

We have a 4X4!

We got it because my mum and dad both wanted more sporty cars, so we got it for when the family wanted to go out, as we could all fit in it. Me and my brother are also not short people and I much prefer sitting in the back of a range rover than in the back of a Mondeo for instance, as it is a lot more comfortable.

Also we used to play a lot of sport, which means lift sharing for team mates etc, which again helps having a bigger more comfortable car.

And it's useful as we go on holiday in the UK and drive to the places we go. It again helps having a bigger car because you have more luggage space and also on a 6 hour journey it is a lot more comfortable to be in.

I can understand why people don't like 4x4's, and as a family we don't like the image they come with, however it is the most practical car for what we want it for.

I also heard on the radio that 4x4 drivers may feel like they own the road because they pay so much more tax, so feel like they do actually own more of the road.

Oh and we don't live in the middle of a town or a city!

[gazz]

Sorry dude don't agree with that at all

Everyone with a 4x4 assumes they are indestructable (same as volvo drivers) so drive around paying no attention to anything at all

Also I do not agree with that. I would say that my Dad is a very good driver, and does not assume that he is indestructable! He drives the same in the Range Rover as he does in my car.

[marinerpug]

your missing the point of my rant! I dont particularly like 4x4s I live in the countryside and they tend to get in my way when I'm on a 'spirited' drive and I agree with the points raised by you lot.

Whats annoyed me is the fact that people winge and whine and try and meddle in other peoples lives. At ome point their arguement is going to include sports cars these people think we should all have small economical cars and will have us trading our cars in for some thing more sensible.

They can sod off if they think I'm getting rid of my 6 for someting economical.

As for the crash testing I've been to accidents involving 2 small cars which has resulted in death I've been to a similar accident involving car and a 4x4 in similar circumstanes with less injuries. It doesn't really matter what your hit by it all depends on where you're hit.

[peedee]

We have a 4X4!

We got it because my mum and dad both wanted more sporty cars, so we got it for when the family wanted to go out, as we could all fit in it. Me and my brother are also not short people and I much prefer sitting in the back of a range rover than in the back of a Mondeo for instance, as it is a lot more comfortable.


So, you're mum and dad bought a 4x4 because they wanted something sporty so went and bought the biggest petrol guzzling land rover they could??

Its more than easy to get 4 or 5 people in a zafira GSI. People won't think you're a wanker, it looks nice, it goes quick, and, more specifically to this entire thread, its a hell of a lot better on fuel!

Phil, I whole-heartedly agree with what you're saying!

[Wizza]

I also think people who own 4x4's should get bum-f****d on tax aswell.

If they have enough money to run the guzzlers, they should pay through the nose for everything else!

I have to go with peedee on this one... I can't stand 4x4's... Full Stop!!!

They do my bloody head in... For a start there a 4x4's these days that aren't even suitable for off road; i.e. Porsche Cayenne!!!

My rant over... I could say a lot more!!!

[gazz]

Yep. Compare the size of a Zafira to a Range Rover!

And I'm sure that a lot of people that agree will have de-cat's! I know it doesn't make the emissions as much as the emissions from a 4X4, but still increase them to over what they could be!

[peedee]

I have to go with peedee on this one... I can't stand 4x4's... Full Stop!!!

They do my bloody head in... For a start there a 4x4's these days that aren't even suitable for off road; i.e. Porsche Cayenne!!!

My rant over... I could say a lot more!!!


I agree. There is no way a Cayenne or Vogue would be able to go offroad. If you want a 4x4, buy an original Land Rover that is actually meant to go off road. I'm not talking about some massive black thing with 20000" chrome spinners on it. I'm talking about the original daddy of off road vehicles that farmers and people that have to go off-road use.

But then, if you said that to an actual 4x4 owner, there answer would be "Its ugly".

[peedee]

Yep. Compare the size of a Zafira to a Range Rover!

And I'm sure that a lot of people that agree will have de-cat's! I know it doesn't make the emissions as much as the emissions from a 4X4, but still increase them to over what they could be!

What does it matter?

It will still be a hell of a lot better on fuel, and be able to hold everything you need it to hold.

[gazz]

What a Zafira!

Fit my mum, dad, my brother and 2 other of his mates, roughly the same size as him mates in that comfortably! Or more comfortably than they fit in a Range Rover!

And what about Ferrari drivers! Their cars aren't exactly great on emissions!

[Fuzzy Orange]

Yeah but Darren you are missing my point mate

They're main argument is they are not right for the people that drive them
For mums taking kids to school this is 100% valid, they are an off road vehicle

They dont campaign to get farmers to stop using them

They may start arguing people don't need ferarris etc.. as speed limit is 70mph, but it will take a long time for that to come down to a gti-6 or 106gti and then you can always pull the track day card out your sleeve

Point I was making is we all use our cars for doing what they were designed for, a good handling fast hot hatch

Mums travelling around with kids 90% of the time have bought the 4x4 for completely the wrong reason

I dont like people telling others what to do, but if their campaigns teach a few parents that their kids arent safer in a big chunk of 4x4 then Im with them!

[mechsman]

I hear what you say about school run 4x4s that nvr see anything except tarmac under their tyres or maybe a little bit of kerb once in a while when the school run mum has to park on the damn pavement cos theres no space (taken up by all the other chelsey tractors!).

However, what about ppl who have to access terrain that is difficult for normal cars? (i.e. farmers etc) My parents are not farmers but my mum has a mk1 mitsibushi Shogun 2.8TD as her daily driver. No it doesnt get great mpg even with a light foot, but u know why she has it? she uses it to tow a bloody great horse box with. And before u get back on ure soapbox we have tried towing it with normal cars (old shape 2.5 V6 vectra sri and new shape 2l turbo vectra) Both of the cars were front wheel drive and once u were off the tarmac, on anything other than bone dry rock hard surfaces, they struggled to pull a loaded up horsebox even when it was only one up. We once had to completely unload the trailer to get it up the slope out of the field (it had rained) cos the car tires just spun even with traction control trying its damndest. However towing with the Shogun is a breeze which is why we have it. It is also a hellva lot safer to tow with a heavy tow vehicle than a light one. My mums friend has a very similar trailer and tows with a new volvo estate and when the trailer is loaded the volvos arse is almost on the deck and it struggles on fields (yes we have had to tow her out, trailer and all)

Now my question, is it right that we should be penalised as 4x4 owners, simply because our lifestyle choice (horse etc) dictates that a 4x4 is a lot more desirable than a standard car?

[Fuzzy Orange]

LOL don't get me started on people with horse boxes - f*ck me thats annoying
They go half the speed of everyone else, drives me nuts
If you have to ride a horse, do it in a field near your house LOL

[Wizza]

I agree. There is no way a Cayenne or Vogue would be able to go offroad. If you want a 4x4, buy an original Land Rover that is actually meant to go off road. I'm not talking about some massive black thing with 20000" chrome spinners on it. I'm talking about the original daddy of off road vehicles that farmers and people that have to go off-road use.

But then, if you said that to an actual 4x4 owner, there answer would be "Its ugly".

To be honest i saw sumit like this the other day...

Fancy reg plate H4NAH and about 24" alloys... Pathetic... I wanted to say sumit...

I think what is worse these days is the bloody Dodge Ram!!!

[peedee]

What a Zafira!

Fit my mum, dad, my brother and 2 other of his mates, roughly the same size as him mates in that comfortably! Or more comfortably than they fit in a Range Rover!

And what about Ferrari drivers! Their cars aren't exactly great on emissions!


They have 2 seats in the front (obviously) and 4 in the rear (6 if you include the middle seats). Unless you, your brother and his mates are all about 7ft, there is more than enough room.

As for Ferarra drivers, I'm not condoning them in anyway, and I also believe they should get bum-f****d with tax, as should any other supercar driver. But, comparing to the Cadillac escalade on the prgramme last night, a ferarri is eco-friendly!!

[Wizza]

I would say anyone who drives a supercar should be put in ther same boat... They are just not needed for road use...

The 4x4 side of the story just cheese me off, you don't need one... What is wrong with a Volvo Estate or sumit... Just as much room and you can get 30MPG!!!

[mechsman]

LOL don't get me started on people with horse boxes - f*ck me thats annoying
They go half the speed of everyone else, drives me nuts
If you have to ride a horse, do it in a field near your house LOL

Lol trailers are restricted to 60mph even on dual cairrageways. Besides would u wanna do 50 or 60mph with a live load (weighs about 3/4 of a ton) that likes to move about? No u can c why we tow with a 4x4, it can handle load shifting and movement a lot better than the average family car back suspension.

What pisses me off is caravans! and ppl who buy these stupid soft roaders such as the toyota rav 4. Its not a bloody offroader, its a car with a 4x4 body plonked on top! They suck off road and get shite mpg! The only soft roader worth having is the lr freelander, at least thats 1/2 decent off road and they still get 50+ mpg on a run (TD4 engine)

[Lacey]

can i add fuel to the fire?

I go past a private school everday on the way to work, i leave my house at 8, its a 20 minute drive... because of these people in their 4x4's parking their tractors in the middle of the (already narrow) street the journey takes me over an hour.
They are so inconsiderate, there is a car park at the end of the road that everyone else doesn't have a problem with using, but for these people it is obviously beneath them.
Really winds me up!

[Fuzzy Orange]

Caravans? Live load?

Theres no reason to tow a caravan to anywhere - they have places to live where you're going

And there's no reason to tow a horse - ride it locally or let it live near where you ride it

Grrrrrr

[Rallye James]

Good afternoon :D

I can be bothered to read the whole thread as it's soooooooooooooooooo long :p

Personally I don't like them and don't see the point in one person driving around in a huge car, same for anything like big estates too. However I do think it's their choice, they're wasting their money on it and they have to pay the fuel and the increased tax, so if they can't see sense I couldn't care less :p

My mum has a 4x4 too...

She PXed her Citroen C3 for a Suzuki Jimny. OK, it's not quite the same, but she wanted something where she sits higher up and says she feels safer in it. Also, she went from a 1.4 (C3) to a 1.3 (Suzuki) so she's hardly causing the worlds polution problems (that's my job! :p)

[gazz]

They have 2 seats in the front (obviously) and 4 in the rear (6 if you include the middle seats). Unless you, your brother and his mates are all about 7ft, there is more than enough room.

As for Ferarra drivers, I'm not condoning them in anyway, and I also believe they should get bum-f****d with tax, as should any other supercar driver. But, comparing to the Cadillac escalade on the prgramme last night, a ferarri is eco-friendly!!

Yes, but you can sit three people in the back of a Range Rover much more comfortably than in the back of a Zafira, and still fit more luggage in!

And don't try and tell me that if you didn't have the money for a Ferrari you wouldn't buy one ! :o

I do agree that it is stupid driving one to take you kids to school in, but that is not what we use ours for. Ours sits on the drive most days of the week causing no pollution!

Also people go on about pollution by cars like these, but how many of them re-cycle properly, or go on holiday using an aeroplane to get there?

[scorpiouk]

read the first part but cba reading the rest.

we own a 4x4, its pretty good on economy compared to alot of cars, its a Honda CRV 2.2 TD. Now as said its not bad on fuel, it doesnt do as much polution as my dads car and its got lots of room and it is nice and high and dickheads dont mess with you.

if your in a small car like my pug i get pushed around, when in a 4x4 you dont get pushed around the same. people respect you more than a smaller car but they also think your 4x4 is slow (well ours isnt, its f'ing fast lol)

would like to say more but i get lots of warnings for my opinions on many forums lol :o

[Weebluemonster]

My dad has a Jeep, I also have a 1962 Landrover at my parents, so I dont mind them per say. I just dont like that they are wide!! Like today there was some guy parked outside a shop on his side of the road, no where near the white line, but as I tried to squeeze though my wing mirror got the wheel arches of this big fecking Landrover! I mean they were totally over the white area of the parking bay and he was right close to the kerb. And I DID move over so as not to try and hit either car. I mean he was encroaching on to the road............not fair!

Scuttled off and hit though and checked wing mirror - thankfully no paint (phew) from tha tcar, but there was Blue paint and I aint hit anything other than clattered that 4x4, so nae amused!! and yes I know - Pot/Kettle!

[Wizza]

And don't try and tell me that if you didn't have the money for a Ferrari you wouldn't buy one ! :o

I'd buy a Ferrari but only use it for track days!!! A lot at that!!!

[peedee]

Fuzzy Orange: This forum is for ranting and discussions. What you posted was just abusive. Please refrain from doing so again :)

[Wizza]

Slighty OTT peedee but yeah I do know what you mean... I can't stand them and I don't respect them... I would get out and go balistic at them... They ain't gonna push me around!!!

[lee19871]

I saw that program aswell, i did notice how they kept sayin they felt so vulnerable isnt it the other drives who shud be feeling vulnerable cus of their cars did u see the accident damage done to that civic lol, no one wud stand a chance if one of those hit you at 60!
I do agree with ppl when they say they only own a 4x4 as a status thing have to have a bigger car than everyone else kind of an ego thing, but still each to their own even though pointless owning one in great britain lol unless of course you have a large fmaily but get a ppl carrier?

[mechsman]

Caravans? Live load?

Theres no reason to tow a caravan to anywhere - they have places to live where you're going

And there's no reason to tow a horse - ride it locally or let it live near where you ride it

Grrrrrr

:mad: Erm every reason to tow a horse if you are going to a competition! The horse lives in a field up the road which my mum and sister CYCLE to and from (rather than use the car).

Erm doubt they have houses in the middle of a field that you go to to do a competition with the horse! What about when you go on a track weekend or something like that? No accomodation, oh so u'd rather sleep on the ground in a tent than sleep in a caravan huh? Right uh huh.

[Wizza]

Yeah but doesn't mean you need a 4x4 to tow either... Well saying that the Land Rover Defender is good, but still estate cars do teh same job!!!

[peedee]

I can't stand horses. Big, Ugly, highly unpredictable creatures that absolutley reek of shit.

Horse boxes are a pain in the arse. They totally clog up our roads. Its so tempting to come up right behind one and hang off my horn!! What carnage that would cause!

Although, there's something about women wearing those white skin tight leggings that does it for me. I bet your mum looks well fit!:D

[Fuzzy Orange]

:mad: Erm every reason to tow a horse if you are going to a competition! The horse lives in a field up the road which my mum and sister CYCLE to and from (rather than use the car).

Erm doubt they have houses in the middle of a field that you go to to do a competition with the horse! What about when you go on a track weekend or something like that? No accomodation, oh so u'd rather sleep on the ground in a tent than sleep in a caravan huh? Right uh huh.

LOL The difference is when I do a track day I drive there at national speed limit, dont slow everyone else down on my way :D

No i'd rather sleep in a caravan, which is why people make static caravan sites!. I just hate people that are so inconsiderate that they think one day out is worth causing hundreds of other people stress, delays and in some cases make them late for interviews/work/events!

[Wizza]

I much prefer satics than tows... For a start statics are bigger and much more comfortable... You can even get a family of four in them!!!

[peedee]

LOL The difference is when I do a track day I drive there at national speed limit, dont slow everyone else down on my way :D

No i'd rather sleep in a caravan, which is why people make static caravan sites!. I just hate people that are so inconsiderate that they think one day out is worth causing hundreds of other people stress, delays and in some cases make them late for interviews/work/events!


Here here. Why not just go to a static caravan site. The caravans are better, you don't have to shower in some dodgey public shower with some other guy staring at your ass, and, most importantly of all, you don't clog up the roads that the rest of us use!

[Rallye James]

Statics rock! :D

I used to live in one ;)

[Weebluemonster]

Yeah, but they LEGALLY have to stay under 50mph, trailers really shouldn't go over 40mph!! So they ARE going at the national speed limit ;)
And it is ILLEGAL to intentionally scare or cause distress to horses (just in case you are ever tempted to like rev your engine) Its in the Animal welfare Act 2006.

Plus if u scare it and it hits your car there is a very high chance you will be killed, I mean mine weights around 600kg, wouldn't fancy that roiling over you would you? Plus, they were here before the car.

But I agree that I dont quite get caravans..............why not just stay in a hotel or take a tent??

[ATFoxy 106]

What is the point in a 4*4 with ROAD tyres on.. i dont get it.. its 4 wheel drive 4 a reason.. if they used it properly and validated why they owned it then id have no problem with them!!

I saw that program aswell, i did notice how they kept sayin they felt so vulnerable isnt it the other drives who shud be feeling vulnerable cus of their cars did u see the accident damage done to that civic lol, no one wud stand a chance if one of those hit you at 60!
my m8 just died from getting ploughed bye a Landrover.. he hit a curb at 50 spun into the road got hit by a landrover at 45 and headbutted the landrover bonnet :(

the thing that pisses me off the most about them is.....
Landrovers use sooo much petrol that the planet is running out of is that by the time i get to being able to afford somthing like a Porche if i can be arsed earning that much money there wont be enuf petrol left for me to do so!!!

[marinerpug]

I think most people have missed the point of my original rant. I'm not for 4x4 vehicles and I agree with everything mentionned in this thread by those that dont like them.

They just dont really bother me though. What bothers me is people who think we should do what they say. They think we should eat what they want us to eat, wear what they want us to wear and drive what they want us to drive.

We live in a free country we can make our own decisions even if they're bad decisions - no-one has the right to tell us what we can or cant do and its this which gets me ranting.

For the record I dont like 4x4s but I hate people who think that they have the right to tell others what to do even more!

[Dan C]

the thing that pisses me off the most about them is.....
Landrovers use sooo much petrol that the planet is running out of is that by the time i get to being able to afford somthing like a Porche if i can be arsed earning that much money there wont be enuf petrol left for me to do so!!!

Global Warming is Bollocks, and we arent going to run out of oil, but thats a different story.

[scotty89]

i agree with mariner pug it bulshit this anti 4x4 lark. thing is some 4x4 driver are dickheads who think they own the road but so do white vans and other drivers, but some people need 4x4 for towing caravans etc. and you actually get decent mile of 4x4 diesel one anyway. things harming the enviroment are big 5.0 v8 the yanks have as a run a round:p :) :D

[gazz]

Global Warming is Bollocks, and we arent going to run out of oil, but thats a different story.

Well said :D

People act like they really care, but at the end of the day they don't!

[scotty89]

the thing that pisses me off the most about them is.....
Landrovers use sooo much petrol that the planet is running out of is that by the time i get to being able to afford somthing like a Porche if i can be arsed earning that much money there wont be enuf petrol left for me to do so!!![/quote]

that is bullshit m8 a porche would use twice as much petrol and any landrover if you look at the facts there don't drink as much pertrol as people think. some people think just cause ther big they use all the petrol/diesel

[Jimbo]

LOL don't get me started on people with horse boxes - f*ck me thats annoying
They go half the speed of everyone else, drives me nuts
If you have to ride a horse, do it in a field near your house LOL

Please don't get me started on these people!

I have never managed to work out why they feel the need to ride their horses on public roads, when there's millions of acres of fields in this country. Then when they've finished f**king everyone off in one area, they decide to load their horsebox up and drive at 30mph to their next location, where i think they plan to annoy everyone there aswell!

Goodnight.

[Jaffa_pug]

i live right next to a school - and when i finish work at 3 o clock - which means i get home just in time for the kids finishing - it's a swarm of 4x4's!!
i was stuck literally 200meters from my house, because a woman in a 4x4 in front of me decided it was a brilliant idea to try and do a 3-point turn in the very narrow street near my house!! she then had the audacity to wind down the window and say 'i wouldn't go that way if i was you, its bedlam' - HELLO!! i actully live here! not half-a-mile-down-the-road-so-i-bring-my-4x4-to-pick-my-one-child-up-from-school!!!
GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!

[peedee]

Global Warming is Bollocks, and we arent going to run out of oil, but thats a different story.


Course we are. Its gonna run out eventually!

[Dan C]

Eventually.....which is hundreds of years away, there are vast reserves left in Antartica and Alaska, just got to wait 50 years before they can start to extract it. New reserves are found everyday all over the world. We will have invented alternative energy sources by the time it runs out anyway so wont be relying on it as much. F*cking mint money involved working in the petroleum industry. Which is why im after a scholarship with Shell through my Geology degree lol

[Wizza]

What is the point in a 4*4 with ROAD tyres on.. i dont get it.. its 4 wheel drive 4 a reason.. if they used it properly and validated why they owned it then id have no problem with them!!

That th sort of point I have been putting accross... They ain't built for off-road use and all have low profife tyres...

The problem I see is just the way people use them... Taking their kids to school so that they are 'safer'...

Safer - my arse... The kis in the back is gonna fly about 200metres forward before he hits the seat and in which case probably dead... They probably want their kids to have a bit of fun before they die!!!