citroen xsara vts

[gowmonster]

have been scouring autotrader and local ads for catc/d damaged xsara vts's as I hear the engine/5speedbox are a good combo and the engine is the same as a 306gti-6 and i've found some for under a grand (even full mint cars) question is, has anyone swapped the engine/gearbox out and popped it in a 106, i'm thinking, there might be space/engine mount/ecu issues.

just wondering if its a good idea? also what about the drive shafts? they might be too long? are drive shafts from tu engines interchangeable.

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/CITROEN+XSARA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-4294966639-4294967130/search.action
cheerz
Allyg

[mat106]

It is doable, but not without major under bonet re structuring. If you have plenty of spare money, it can be done, but i would swing more towards fitting it behind the front seats, as i recon it would be easier to do, but slammed 106 and bic are both doing it in the front so see there progress blogs for pics, bearing in mind that slammed is a very good welder and bic knows enough people that are good at fabrication, so it will cost them less in labour.

[loudandproud205]

basicly mi16 coversion but bit newer

[slammed106]

yup as you said a xsara vts is best to 106 conversion as it comes with a 5 spd box instead of 6 which will make a bloody damn near impossible task into a merely very very hard one..

cut mounts off

alter chassis rail

fabricate new mounts

lots of welding

job done

[loudandproud205]

not a big job then lol

[gowmonster]

arrghh, cant get to sleep thinking about this, so many questions.

1. anyone know what the engine weights are of a gti-6 engine and a 106 gti engine, i really dont want to sacrifice the great handling of the 106
2. how do you go about unlocking the ecu?
3. fitting a 106gti/306gti-6 engine to a 106 without abs, wise? if not i'm gonna have to take the brakes/rear beam of the donor car correct?

i'm thinking 106gti engine now as it will prob be easier, its just that xsara vts's are soo cheap......

[shaun 106 gti]

gti engine will be just be as quick as xsara vts engine

[slammed106]

bog standard no mods in a 106 shell the gti6/xsara engine in a straight line will beat a gti lump...

it has about 30 brake more and 40lb/ft more torque...

yes its a heavier engine (by about 30kilos i think) so even fitted properly on the twisty stuff it would be very very close a gti would probably be quicker round the bends but the extra torque would mean the xsara engine has more gunt outta the bends...

tuning wise..

i`ll start with normally apsirated..

throw a lot of money at 1.6 lump and you (like the bald fella) can have a gnats cock over 200 horses and approx 140 lb/ft of torque (please notice this figure is STILL less than a std gti6 engine)

power wise spending as much as you`d have to on the 1.6 you could have 260 odd brake and 180 odd lb/ft of torque...


turbo/super charger

right here we go.....

stick your gti on a parcel force lorry and send it to GMC give them a shitload of money and yes it will be quicker than a naturally aspirated gti6 engine... BUT what people overlook is the fact that by the time you have added an intercooler + turbo + ancilliaries i doubt very much the weight difference will be as much plus the turbo and i/c is right t the front of the car right in the worst possible for handling....

but lynx`s supercharged gti6 is pushing about 400 brake and more "talk" than any 1.6 owner could dream of lmfao...


the problem is that to fit the 2litre lump needs MAJOR fabrication work which probably costs as much as the engine work alone which is why most people sy its a crap mod its a f**king joke look at any seriously quick RS turbo.. do they stick with 1600??? do they horse shit they put a 2litre in it....

i think the 1600 8v is a great lump.. the 1600 16v is bloody awesome.. BUT extra cc`s will always make the difference...

end of rant...


oooooh i forgot to add if you really want some fun bore the 2litre to 87mm throw in a diesel crank and you`ll have 2.2L to play with.... now you KNOW that makes sense

[mat106]

If more cc`s are better, you want a 2946 cc engine lobbed in. :rolleyes:

I personally want to see more bigger engined 106`s that can handle, so i cant wait for bics and slammed`s cars to be complete.

[slammed106]

lmao... if i wasn`t keeping FWD phils cossie V6 would be in the back of mine!!!

[106turbo]

talking of big engined 106's what other ideas have you got? I will be wanting a new project soon. How bout something mid mounted.

[mat106]

lmao... if i wasn`t keeping FWD phils cossie V6 would be in the back of mine!!!

Well i wanted to stay pug throughout, although a nice cossie engine is always good. I might stick the cossie 4wd system in the next shell.;)

[106turbo]

how bout something like this but in a 106.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sNvWtlESSC0

[RallyeDan]

does kompressor mean 'charged?

[slammed106]

lmao i`ve got LOADS of ideas but most would confirm my insanity...

some of the gems:

4X4

misubishi evo engine and 4x4 system (mo on the lancer register has just nudged 1000 brake!) (no that isn`t a mistype!!!!!)

MID ENGINE RWD

zcars/focus RS a few coice mods will see 400+ brake and a LSD in the box as standard

FWD

ford zetec turbo`d- area six can supply these pushing OVER 500 horses



i`m still in 2 minds about the zetec if a decent priced Xsara doesn`t appear it may happen.. exhausts at the front and the bare lumps aint that heavy...

[mat106]

A bit like this then, just with a bit less power and no super charger.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mat106/My%20Baby/DSCF0384.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mat106/My%20Baby/DSCF0271.jpg

[gowmonster]

cheers guys, it's just cause i've done quite a bit already, but i guess I can sell up and start afresh with a gti or move on to something else, but will probably just run the 106 till it dies in it's present form....

[slammed106]

mat- legend!

[RallyeDan]

dont give up on the idea mate!!! Im fed up of the boundaries standing still!! they need pushing far....... as Stu said it may be a lot of fabrication work but there is no replacement for displacement!!! it May be front heavy but if you can move some of the weight towards the back to even it out all will be good! Battey and radiator can be relocated to the boot etc etc Fibreglass bonnet and roof will also reduce weight at the front.

[106turbo]

legend indeed.

hmm an evo engine would be good. ideas are starting to come into my head now.

[gowmonster]

well, i've got an sub and and an amp in the back and the spare is still there..... plus as it's not a gti its not got electric windows/sunroof/mirrors/air con/central locking.

i'll look into a welding course at college, i'm sure i can afford to have the pug off the road for a bit.

[slammed106]

phil (who owned the 2L 8v turbo ka) is now on a mission to get his new one planned he`s gonna be using the volvo/ford 5 pot and 4wd should be fun!

sandy`s got his bodied 2.2 vtec 309 and is helping rich build a 205 along similar lines...

try telling them they`d be better with a TU under the bonnet FPMSL

[slammed106]

i dare say if you hunt round the mitsi range theres a FWD gearbox in the range that could be used to save going 4x4 now that would be a giggle if you could get it in!!

[gowmonster]

is there any compact engines that would to the biz? anyone dropped a charade turbo engine in for instance? or a 5gtturbo?

[mat106]

Really, if you are willing to put the effort in, you could fit any engine you wanted, but it comes down to labour costs. If i let someone do my car, i would dread to think what 3 years worth of labour would cost. Dont give up on the idea, if you can get a cheap car to do the work on, i got mine for £82 off ebay as a driving car, then it wont matter how long its off the road.

[slammed106]

as mat said its the actual fabrication costs that put most people off doing it with 106`s wht pay someone 2000 quid (example) to fit a 2litre into a 106 when you can buy a fiesta and bolt 1 straight in.....

[RallyeDan]

you could try dropping in a starlet gt turbo engine and they are only 1.3 so cheap tax or sumat like an RB26DETT in the back, and no im not jokin!!!

[gowmonster]

how does the handling compare? 106 vs fiesta? i doubt i'll ever own a ford.......

[mat106]

I really would get a cheap 106 with a blown engine and start from there, as you dont want to cut your good car up. Would a trimmed down xsara vts engine bay not fit and join it together, or is it best to relocate the mounts and cut the chassis rails. I fitted the 406 front end in the rear of the 106 and it fitted perfectly between the rear chassis rails, so that worked out great.

[slammed106]

phils current KA is pretty good.. how much of that is down to KA or how much is due to DJM widetrack and 18`s i dont know but it holds its own quite well...

[mat106]

phils current KA is pretty good.. how much of that is down to KA or how much is due to DJM widetrack and 18`s i dont know but it holds its own quite well...

I know its a ford, but have you got any pics of the ka.

[slammed106]

theres a 16v xsi on rallye register at the minute for 500 quid.. sell the engine and you`ve covered most of your costs....

my xsi was a 100 quider off fleabay..

as said sometimes welding the fornt of the doner car in easier than making new mounts but i think thats more advantageous when its going behind the front seats its the same way batchy`s old rs turbo/gti was done...

[slammed106]

mat:

the old standard arch`d 2l turbo

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/slammed106/ka.jpg

the slightly less old racing arched one

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/slammed106/thenewfreak019.jpg

the current wide ass mutha

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/slammed106/picture345.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/slammed106/Photo-0022.jpg




i beleive this week the roof spoiler is ON... lmao

[mat106]

Of course, the front chassis rails will be closer together than the rears, i forgot about that bit. I have a scrap 106 shell, i might do something with that at some point.

There are a good selection of small powerfull engines in other cars, but the driveshafts would need to be custom made, at least if you keep it all pug then you should get something that will sort of fit together. I measured a honda v6 for the front, and it fits width wise but it wouldnt have fitted unless the radiator was moved, but that was my other option, again the driveshafts would never have fitted easily.

[mat106]

How wide are they then, as ive measured mine and its currently 6 feet 3 inches, which is not running any spacers. It will fit in a parking space i think, it looks alright anyway. I actually like it without a spoiler, and im leaving mine off now.

[slammed106]

drivelink and recoprop are the best bet for custom shafts...

as for no room for rads.. wang it under the boot floor and run pipes up and down the car!!

i dont really know how wide the KAk is... will have a look next tme i`m over there i seem to remember its not that much..