KMS Engine Managment - Questions

[Quik_Pug]

Im looking at some engine work soon (undecided which route im taking at the mo lol :p) but which ever route i take im looking at getting the KMS engine managment and wideband. But i have a few concerns and just wondering if this managment is the way to go.....

1. Wideband + Display

Read this on the ssc......

http://www.saxosportsclub.com/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=33080.html

Now a few guys on there have had loads of problems with the wideband and display and doesnt give me much confidence about paying 350 for it?

2. Cold Start Issues

Again reading up on the ssc......

http://www.saxosportsclub.com/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=32825.html

Last thing i want is a GTI that wont start in the morning and it seems quite a few people are having issues?

3. Adaptor Loom

I know they do a single plug Loom but was a 3plug loom ever released - thought id pop the question in case someone knew before i call them :)

Thanks for any help and oipnions regarding all this. Last thing i want to do is to fit a £500+ managment system and have constant problems

Cheers

Tom

[sybez]

Take it to GMC to be fitted and you will have ZERO problems with it!

Alternativly used the DTA S40/S60, is a bit more money though and does the same as KMS.... is all down to the fitting and mapping at the end of the day.

[Quik_Pug]

If i went KMS my car would be going to GMC on a flatbed ;)

But it still seems the wideband and cold start are causing problems despite where its been mapped, its not just 1 person its quite a few

If i went to a more local tuner i would ask them which management they preffered to use before buying it :)

[shaun 106 gti]

mine at gmc now having kms and wide band,shouldnt have any problems with john doing it as sybez said,as for the loom issue,u have a 3 plug ecu the same as me ,but ime having the kms hardwired into my loom,an keeping my standard ecu so i dont loose the temp sensors etc an fan....

[Quik_Pug]

ah right....did John recommend you do that?

[shaun 106 gti]

what the hardwire into my loom?? i read it onn ssc club,he put a thread up saying thats what he can now offer,otherwise you would loose the temp sensors an fan without keeping the standard ecu hope that helps u....

[Quik_Pug]

Yea thats what i meant. Havent read about that so let me know how it all works out?

Not sure about hardwiring into my loom thats all

[shaun 106 gti]

do u search on ssc club for kms an its on there sum where,yes i will let u know how it goes,why rnt u sure about the hardwiring bit.....

[Fuzzy Orange]

Yeah the problem is the 3 plug ecus like ours actually control radiator fans, and send all the signals to the dashboard

If you replace them completely you lose all the dash signals and the radiator fan

Rad fan is easy to replace with an old style temperature sensor switch in the radiator but the other stuff is more complex
More and more places now are cutting into the looms so the KMS/Omex/DTA or whatever controls the timing and fuelling but everything else is done on the standard ecu

[Quik_Pug]

So whether its Omex, DTA etc if its a 3-plug ECU unless there is an adaptor loom for a 3-plu available they cut into the standard loom

[shaun 106 gti]

i think so ......

[rich-gti]

there is no 3 plug adapter and never will be as the company who makes them wont sell them to any other companies either than pug etc the main car dealers themselfs.

What mods you planning as your fitting the kms

[fred]

I have some info I got form Matt at QEP about setting it up so the cold start issue goes away. I can send it, or give matt a call at QEP. He's a sound chap.

[sybez]

If i went KMS my car would be going to GMC on a flatbed ;)

But it still seems the wideband and cold start are causing problems despite where its been mapped, its not just 1 person its quite a few

If i went to a more local tuner i would ask them which management they preffered to use before buying it :)

Well there 3 of us, (me, axo16v, and JPsaxo) that have all had theres fitted and wired at GMC with no problems at all. Ok mine has done much mileage but was faultless when the car was running. Everyone elses problems are occurring from their own fitments. There seems to be some association between the types of manifolds used, and the angle of how the lambdas poke into the exhaust flow too.

What manifold do you have, and what engine mods route are you planning? i.e. NA or Boost?

Bottom line is..... best best guys for tuning french cars are GMC whatever setup you choose. Just go there! :cool:

[shaun 106 gti]

that what ive been thinking sybez all the people who have had problems r the 1s who have either done it themselves or who havent been to gmc!

[Quik_Pug]

Engine route im undecided on bud...its either bodies or boost but either way i know mapping is the crucial part so expect to get my car to GMC for engine mapping.

I thought that if i went standalone that would replace my standard ECU - didnt realise i would need to hardwiring into my standard loom.

[sybez]

The rewire is for 3 plugs only.... so you still get the dash diplays etc...

[dannygti]

sybez is the problem with the wideband display or the actual wideband function that breaks when using the raceland manifold?

[Leah]

Cold start will only be an issue if it's not mapped properly. And to map it properly takes a lot of time. And a lot of time means a lot of labour. Which is always costly.

So most mappers will do a reasonable cold start map, which is a good compromise between cost/running. You could ask for them to map the cold start as best they can - but it'll add a lot to the final bill.

Start it up on a cold morning and pump the accelerator/ hold the throttle slightly open for a minute or so - and it'll be fine.

[Shane_87]

Start it up on a cold morning and pump the accelerator/ hold the throttle slightly open for a minute or so - and it'll be fine.

not good when you need to go anywhere in a hurry lol i got this problem currently, now mine also stalls if i drive it away and drop the clutch when i need to stop only does it when first driven, had it mapped 3 times to try and fix it with no real joy!

im waiting for the coldest mornings to try it again but its not getting frosty like it was :(

[dannygti]

thats the trouble,most places will map the car in one day,so as soon as youve started it thats the time to do a cold start map,but as soon as te engine is warmed the you cant do the coldstart unless you wait for it to cool down(hours maybe)that will just bump up the labour time.

im fortunate cause i can map the car myself to a degree so my mapping will only consist of tweaking,but in the summer its impossible to get a cold start map appropriate for the winter.

[sybez]

From what I've read its the wideband position in the manifolds, causing them to either get too "wet" or "hot" in the exhaust flow. This kills the lambda probe and then gives the dodge readings on display. Also the power supply needs to be spot on as the probes are so sensitive to changes of voltage that any current drain from the car will cock the readings it gives.

The cold start mapping shouldnt "cost" much really as teh window for working on it is so small. As teh name suggests the engine needs to be dead cold, and everything setup ready for mapping before the key is turned. Then there only a few minutes once started to get a map in before the temps rise above that of cold start. Then switch off and wait, usually till next morning to do the same again. Will take a good 5 attempts to get it spot on, depending on mapper abilities. GMC will have a load of base maps saved from all the different cars they have done over the years, but no two cars are the same, but it will certainly cut down on the costs associated with cold start mapping. Whether they will "sell" you these will take a call to them, and then the wideband should be able to do the corrections for your car.

[shaun 106 gti]

people hate paying for mapping but its the 1 thing that makes the car what it is! yes it mite cost alot but its worth it if done by the rite person (gmc)

[Quik_Pug]

Ok cheers Sy thanks for all the advice :)